Sorry for starting a new topic... but the other topic and its title was focused for another scenario and products...

So, I have the BMCC 2.5K MFT and no audio solution right now. I either shoot in a small crew or.... I have some personal projects ( fiction or mini-portrait docs) which I'd like to shoot my own gear. Right now I have a zoom h1.

For a better audio I've decided to buy the Tascam DR-60D (or its successor the mkii version but still didn't find any reviews on that one), plus I need a mic for it... So, which mic to buy?

NTG-2 seems nice, I could use it on camera through the Tascam, or off camera into the Tascam. But I heard it's not that great indoors... Why? What would be a better option in the same price range? NTG-3 is out of my range... Any Sennheiser?

Can I record atmosphere/ambient sound with the NTG2? Or a Videomic pro would be better? Or my Zoom H1?

The only down side to the NTG-2 is that it's a cardoid rather than a hypercardoid. Other than that, it's a pretty good mic.

For ambient recordings, the mics on the Tascam will probably do fine. For dialog and interview recordings, you'll want a hypercardiod or a Mid-side stereo shotgun (hypercardioids are mono, easier to use, fewer cables etc). Rode's mics are excellent, and among the least expensive given their sound and build quality. Audio Technica is a close contender. Another option to get started with is Oktava, and you could also visit Sweetwater and get some advice from there.

If you can't afford a shotgun mic with a narrower input pattern than an NTG-2 and you need something that doesn't require a boom pole, you could get a wired lavalier. You can get good wired lavs for around $200, and they don't require all that much gain due to proximity, just some ingenuity when placing/concealing them.

Tascam DR-60d doesn't have any mics.... :S

So to put it simple: indoors I need a mic which is even more focused then an NTG-2, thus recording "only" from one direction and "ignore" the sound from sidewise?

Ok, I was thinking of a different Tascam recorder model, then

To minimize echo, you can either get a mic with a tighter pickup pattern, or get the mic very close to the speaker... though in reality, getting the mic as close as possible should be standard practice anyway.

Anybody?

Maybe some video/audio samples shot with the DR60 + NTG2? Any kind of stuff would be interesting to see and hear from wide range, from fiction to documentary to voice over etc...

Here's one:

http://whitecranephoto.prosite.com/1454 ... ia-city-wa

Recorded with a Zoom h4n and a Sound Devices MixPre-D, NTG-2, as well as an Audio Technica lavalier.

I use the Tascam DR-60D with my BMPCC. Sold off the Zoom h4n to get this and I'm happy with that decision. The ergonomics are better and it's overall a better fit (easier to rig, operate) than the h4n, especially with the BMPCC. I'd say it has better sound quality as well - a lower noise floor, but not a huge difference there.

The mic that I use is the Audix SCX1/HC. It is a hypercardioid. As people above have pointed out, it does a much better job than a Rode NTG-2 or VideoMic Pro indoors. I also have a VideoMic Pro and it does a good job but is almost a mess for indoor dialog where the acoustics aren't right. The Audix has a much better texture and sounds very rich and natural. I don't have to do much in post at all.

The Oktavas are supposed to be nice as well if you can deal with the handling noise issues. I'd strongly suggest using a proper boompole and a shock-mount to avoid handling noise in any case.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/2 ... phone.html
^that's the Audix. I got one used for around 370. Has worked great.

And although a very rough example, this is from a small shoot we did a while back where the Audix was used. It's not an indoor location but will give you an idea about the texture. I don't have many things uploaded, so this is what i can show about the mic.


The audio is untouched. I've used it for indoor locations but don't have any of that online. And I'm not into this professionally yet, so those who are can use this mic even better.

Thanks, but maybe its not the best sample what is this setup is capable of

I hear good things about the Sennheiser MKE 600. How it compares to thenRode NTG2?

I read in some other topic that if someone buys a Rode NTG 3, then he doesn't have to buy other mic because that's good for so variable usage. Is it right?

Gabe Darvas wrote:I hear good things about the Sennheiser MKE 600. How it compares to thenRode NTG2?

I read in some other topic that if someone buys a Rode NTG 3, then he doesn't have to buy other mic because that's good for so variable usage. Is it right?

The MKE 600 is a great mic. I have achieved very acceptable results indoors and outdoors with it. It is also very handy to have the AA battery option if for some reason I don't have phantom power. I think you will be pleased with this mic. I have used that and the NTG-2, and I prefer the 600. However, that could just be a matter of taste.

I have read that the NTG-3 sounds excellent and it is an RF bias mic, but you will spend a couple hundred more dollars on that than the MKE 600. There are many tests on youtube for the NTG-3 for reference.

Ideally, for outdoor use, you want a shotgun mic, and for indoor use, you would want a hypercardioid mic such as the Audix mentioned above. However, if you only had the budget for one, I think a short shotgun mic would serve you better.

The Location Sound Bible is a great resource: http://www.amazon.com/The-Location-Soun ... 1615931201
The preview of the book contains a ton of useful information. It helped me decide which mic I should get for my purposes.

Hope this helps.

Tyler Edwards wrote:I have read that the NTG-3 sounds excellent and it is an RF bias mic, but you will spend a couple hundred more dollars on that than the MKE 600. There are many tests on youtube for the NTG-3 for reference.

The reason that I've been using an NTG-2 is that I didn't have the budget for an NTG-3 when I bought it, or I'd have gone with the NTG-3. For the build and sound quality, it's very inexpensive. It's pretty neutral, more sensitive than the NTG-2 by a significant margin, and captures a lot of detail. I took a listen to it, and bought the NTG-2 that I have now while wishing that I could afford the NTG-3 instead. I'll probably upgrade at some point.

Ideally, for outdoor use, you want a shotgun mic, and for indoor use, you would want a hypercardioid mic such as the Audix mentioned above. However, if you only had the budget for one, I think a short shotgun mic would serve you better.

It's probably also worth pointing out that even among shotgun mics, there's a fair bit of variation in pickup patterns. The NTG-2 is a shotgun mic, but it's still a cardioid, while the NTG-3, also a shotgun, is IIRC a hypercardioid (it might be a supercardioid).

(format fix)

Rakesh Malik wrote:I have read that the NTG-3 sounds excellent and it is an RF bias mic, but you will spend a couple hundred more dollars on that than the MKE 600. There are many tests on youtube for the NTG-3 for reference.


The reason that I've been using an NTG-2 is that I didn't have the budget for an NTG-3 when I bought it, or I'd have gone with the NTG-3. For the build and sound quality, it's very inexpensive. It's pretty neutral, more sensitive than the NTG-2 by a significant margin, and captures a lot of detail. I took a listen to it, and bought the NTG-2 that I have now while wishing that I could afford the NTG-3 instead. I'll probably upgrade at some point.


Ideally, for outdoor use, you want a shotgun mic, and for indoor use, you would want a hypercardioid mic such as the Audix mentioned above. However, if you only had the budget for one, I think a short shotgun mic would serve you better.


It's probably also worth pointing out that even among shotgun mics, there's a fair bit of variation in pickup patterns. The NTG-2 is a shotgun mic, but it's still a cardioid, while the NTG-3, also a shotgun, is IIRC a hypercardioid (it might be a supercardioid).

Very helpful info and clarification!

Just like lenses, it is always best to test any mic (if you can) to see what best suits your needs and taste.

Tyler Edwards wrote:Very helpful info and clarification!

Just like lenses, it is always best to test any mic (if you can) to see what best suits your needs and taste.

I try

You're right, you do need to try them. There's a reason that most sound recordists end up with such a wide collection of mics... they're like lenses in the audio world.

Being an audiophile as well as a cinematographer, I do have a pretty collection of mics... my favorites are the small diaphragm tube mics, but they're not practical on most film sets, plus they only have cardioid and omni capsules. Some folks have had good success using Oktava's pencil mics (MK 012, I think is the model), since you can get hypercardioid capsules with them, but they won't give you nearly as much reach as a good shotgun.

Just by way of example, when I was recording audio for a friend using my Audio Technica BP4027 (14" stereo shotgun), I set it to its narrowest pickup, mixed it to mono, and cranked up the gain on my mixer (Sound Devices). I was standing on the opposite side of a 4-lane arterial from them... and when the traffic was clear, I was able to record them with the same clarity as if I'd been standing right next to them. It only lasted for one take thanks to the rush hour traffic, but it goes to show what you can do with a good mic.

Based on my experience using an NTG-3 when running sound for a crew that had one, I'd guess that it would come pretty close. The NTG-2 would have been hopeless at that distance, and the relatively wide pickup pattern would have captured enough additional audio that we'd have been lucky to be able to HEAR the actors, let alone understand them.

That said, a much better solution for that situation would have been wireless lavs, but we didn't have the budget for them at the time, so we were making do with what we had.

I don't have much chance for trying out different mics before buying...

NTG-2 is cheaper here, and can be bought in a boom kit with accessories for a nice price (500usd). MKE 600 is more expensive and there's no kit option, so I would have to buy them separately that would result in a higher price...

The NTG-2 will enable you to get good audio, it will just require more care than an NTG-3 to in terms of mic placement. You can always grow into an NTG-3 later.

I have the NTG-3 running into a Zoom H6 and been loving the results. As with most things technological, I tend to feel the cheapest option is to pay a little more upfront and have something that will get you through years to come.